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                            BILL GOODMAN,  P. O. BOX 2002,  BOZEMAN,  MONTANA  59771

                                          TEL. (406) 587-3131        FAX (406) 219-3415 

                           EMAIL:  montanaraven@hotmail.com

      Bill Goodman has been a collector of antique/collector firearms for well over 40 years and a full time dealer for over 30 years.  Traveling around the country constantly seeking good quality collector arms at REALISTIC PRICES, Bill sells exclusively by mail order.  Until recently, he has advertised in every issue of The Gun List  (now Gun Digest the Magazine) since it's first small issues in the early 1980s (as well as The Shotgun News before that). All items are photographed. To view them just click the text of the item you want to see. Be sure to scroll down as most items have more than one photo.  All guns are sold as collector's items, not shooters.  If you wish to shoot an item listed here, it is strongly recommended that you have the item checked out by a competent gunsmith who specializes in antique/classic firearms. All items are sold with the usual three (3) day inspection.  If for any reason you are not satisfied with your purchase, call to say you are returning the item and you will receive an immediate refund when the item is received back in the same condition it was originally shipped. This list will be constantly updated as new items become available.  Use the above phone number or email to call to check availability and for info on any item you wish to purchase. Prices do not include shipping. All federal/state laws concerning the transfer of firearms are strictly followed.  Modern firearms must be shipped to an FFL dealer (or "Curio & Relics" license holders where applicable).  Pre-1899 antiques may be shipped to non-FFL holders. All Layaway sales are final. AND PLEASE, MAKE CHECKS TO WILLIAM (OR BILL) GOODMAN AND NOT GOODMANGUNS. 

 

 

 

MORE GUNS WERE POSTED ON 9/28/20. WATCH FOR FREQUENT POSTINGS THROUGH OCTOBER.

 

 

NOTES FROM THE FIELD: FINALLY, MY SECOND NOVEL IS OUT! First, I'd like to thank everyone who read my first novel, DESERT SUNDAYS, and kept after me to get the second one done and published! So, after the usual delays and hitches, here it is. This one is called AN OBVIOUS SLAM DUNK and if you like courtroom scenes and a story that not only makes you think, but surprises you...well, this is a page turner I know you'll like. And before anyone asks, yes, the third novel is almost done and I hope to get that one out before too long. All three form a trilogy, but each stands alone, so it doesn't matter which you read first. Both are available on Amazon or Barnes and Noble (Kindle downloads too). If you want to save some money and have a signed copy, I have books here that I can sell cheaper than online at $13 each including shipping. Click here to see both books front and back with a synopsis of each.  Don't bother to call to reserve a copy, just toss a check in the mail with shipping instructions. Thanks, Bill Goodman

 

 

COLT FIRE ARMS (click text for photo)

1) SUPERB MODEL 1862, 3 ½ INCH ROUND BARREL "CONVERSION” REVOLVER IN DESIRABLE .38 CENTER FIRE CALIBER, #316XXX, C. LATE 1870s. These conversion revolvers made from frames and parts of left over percussion guns are some of Colt’s earliest cartridge arms. They are not only quite scarce because of very limited production, but extremely interesting with many variations. Because of the high serial number on this one, it was probably produced in the . last part of the 1870s. It has a full bright nickel plated finish of which most remains. There is only a small amount of limited peeling on the top of the barrel by the muzzle and a small spot an inch or so back along with some extremely minor edge wear. All serial numbers match and the cylinder shows a crisp and clear engraving scene. The frame, hammer, butt, grip straps, trigger guard etc. retain bright nickel with only a few very minor spots of peel. All excellent markings and screws. Tight action. One-piece walnut grips are excellent and still show quite a bit of the original finish. About ¾ of this model were made in .38 Rim Fire with only about a quarter of production made in Center Fire configuration. These were made on the 1849 frame and have the original “.31 CAL” stamping on the rear of the trigger guard over-stamped with an “8” to show “ .38 CAL.” There is extensive information on this model (as well as others) in the detailed book by R. Bruce McDowell A Study of Colt Conversions and Other Percussion Revolvers. About 10,000 of these were made, of which approx. 6500 were made from 1849 revolvers. Made without ejectors, these conversion Colts are among the most handsome firearms turned out. This is one of the finest examples I’ve seen. (4 photos) $2150.

2) HIGH CONDITION SINGLE ACTION ARMY .45 COLT CALIBER, 5 ½”, #345XXX, MADE 1923. This example with matching numbers shows most of the blue overall with only some gray spotting/flaking on the outside of the ejector housing, a touch of muzzle wear and the most minor of edge wear on the cylinder and trigger guard bottom. Case colors are vivid in all the more protected areas and still visible on the frame sides below the cylinder with a little brighter color on the right side. Screws retains nice fire blue and the cylinder pin shows about all the blue too. The front sight has not been filed or altered, fine action, minty bright bore and fitted with period very wide and heavy mellowed stag grips. (4 photos) $3650.

3) SELDOM SEEN NICKEL FINISH NEW SERVICE REVOLVER, .38-40 CALIBER, 5 1/2" BARREL, #308XXX, MADE 1920. Almost the entire line of the big double action large caliber New Service revolvers was made with blue finish. Very few special order nickel finished guns were produced and are rarely encountered today. This one came out of Texas and shows honest use, but is still in fine condition overall. There is nickel peeling mainly on the front portion of the cylinder. The metal that is exposed has turned dark- if this area is polished a bit to remove the dark color the metal will blend better and give this example a better appearance. There is also some thinning of the nickel on the left side of the barrel from holster carry. The balance of the nickel has clouded a little from age, but is intact, even on the grip straps and trigger guard etc. Fine markings including the rampant colt stamping on the left side of the frame. The grips are numbered to the gun and there is only one very small chip at the extreme bottom inside where the grip aligning pin goes through the frame. The swivel has been removed and would be easy to replace. When I found this one it had been in storage for years and actually was a little clogged with grease. The action is tight with no cylinder movement or end shake, bore is generally excellent. A really unusual Colt. You can look for years and not find a nickel New Service. $1395.

4) VERY EARLY 1903 .38 ACP POCKET HAMMER AUTO PISTOL, #22XXX, MADE 1908. These are truly intriguing early autos as they have the same characteristics as the first Browning designed Colt autos with no safety or slide locking levers or grip safeties! In fact the only safety is the half-cock notch on the hammer! Primitive, yet the cool-factor on these is off the charts! The .38 ACP is the exact same cartridge as the later .38 Super. It is important to know that while the Super will chamber, it is never to be fired in one of these early .38 ACP chambered Colts. It is not uncommon to see either the 1903 Pocket Hammer or the larger Model 1900, 1902 and 1905 autos with cracked slides caused from firing the higher pressure .38 Super. This example shows fine correct markings including the patent dates of 1897 and 1902 on the left side of the slide along with the Colt address. The right side of the slide has the wonderful early “AUTOMATIC COLT” stamping over “CALIBRE .3 RIMLESS SMOKELESS” marking. There is also a fine rampant colt in a circle at the rear of the slide on the left side. This Colt appears uncleaned and unfooled with. The slide blue has aged to a deep dull blue. The slide also retains the original dovetailed rear sight and small blade front sight. The frame shows fine blue in all the protected areas with the balance naturally aged blue/brown. The original hard rubber black Colt grips show normal handling and wear with no cracks or chips. Action is tight and the bore is excellent. It also has the correct unmarked magazine- these were unmarked in the production years of 1905-1916 after which the bottoms had various Colt and caliber markings. This is a nice example that came out of Arizona. It is interesting to note that all of these early .38 ACP models were popular in the southwest and Mexico. $1350.

5) A REALLY BEAUTIFUL LITTLE 1908 RARE NICKEL FINISH .25 ACP VEST POCKET AUTO, #295XXX, MADE 1921. this sharp diminutive auto retains about all the nickel finish with only a tiny bit of peel at the extreme front left edge at the muzzle. All markings are sharp and clear including the rampant colt on the left rear of the slide. Two-tone magazine is marked on the bottom "CAL. 25 COLT." Excellent, tight action with both the lever safety and grip safety functioning perfectly. Exc. Colt hard rubber grips. A classy little special order nickel finished pocket auto from the Roaring Twenties Era in great condition! $895.

6) EXCEEDINGLY RARE .32 NEW POLICE (.32 S&W LONG) CALIBER PRE-WAR OFFICERS MODEL HEAVY BARREL TARGET REVOLVER, #635XXX, MADE NEAR THE END OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION IN 1939. The standard calibers for all the Officers Models was either .38 Special or .22 Rim Fire. Only toward the end of Pre-War production when Colt was turning out few revolvers during the worst economic times this country had known for decades, did Colt make a small run of these fine revolvers in .32 Caliber. It is thought that only a few hundred were manufactured. This example shows most of the blue intact with only some faint “spotting” to the blue on the right side of the frame behind the recoil shield with- looks like either some drops of water or sweat rested in this area and thinned the blue. The six inch barrel is clearly marked with the usual Colt address on top with patent dates correctly ending with the 1926 date. The left side of the barrel is marked “COLT OFFICERS MODEL 32 HEAVY BARREL.”  The standard factory grips have been replaced with beautiful thumb rest wrap around target stocks with a well executed checkering pattern with a diamond at the screw hole on each side. Tight mechanically and excellent inside, this is the highest quality turned out by Colt during the years when only the best craftsmen remained employed to hand fit and finish these top of the line handguns. $2250.

7) THE 41ST OFFICERS MODEL SPECIAL REVOLVER MADE! The Officers Model Special was only made from 1949-1952 and only a total of 6210 were made in .22 LR and .38 Special combined. Serial numbers began at 783001 and continued to 789211. This example in .38 Special is serial number 783041 and was probably turned out in the first day or two of production for this model! One of the more scarce of the Post-World War II Colts, the Officers Model Special had a heavy 6” barrel and a distinctive long ramped front sight. Rear sight was adjustable. At the time Bullseye Shooting was the most popular form of pistol match shooting and the Officers Model Special was the finest .38 Special target revolver in the Colt line. The single and double action pull has to be felt to be believed. These were all hand-honed and fitted by skilled craftsmen and will never be duplicated. The Officers Model Special gave way to the Officers Model Match which had quite a long run from 1953-1970. The Officers Model Special was fitted with “Coltwood” plastic grips that just about everyone hated! Why Colt though American shooters would accept plastic on such a fine revolver is baffling. Most revolvers so fitted have had their grips changed and this example is no exception. It now wears Pachmayr rubber grips, but the original style Coltwood grips would be easy to replace. The blue finish shows some honest wear, but overall there is no abuse or rust. There is the usual blue wear and dulling on the barrel sides and edges of the cylinder etc., but overall this scarce Colt has a fine look to it. All markings are sharp and clear including the “COLT OFFICERS MODEL SPECIAL” marking on the left side of the barrel. Perfect bore, tight action, amazing mechanics!  These are not often encountered and this has to be one of the lowest serial numbers extant. $1195.

8) GREAT OFFERING! WOOLY MAMMOTH FOSSILIZED IVORY GRIPS FOR COLT (AND CLONES) 1911 AUTO PISTOLS! The Wooly Mammoth pretty much became extinct about 10,000 years ago at the end of the Pleistocene. A large number of the remains of these animals ended up in the permafrost of Siberia and Alaska. Their bones and tusks have  been harvested for many years. the tusks typically take on minerals from the soil in which they were entombed for thousands of years. this gives the ivory a rich and very varied coloration. The ivory from the "bark" or outside of the tusk tends to be darker and heavily pigmented, while the more inner portions can be as light as creamy-white. Mammoth ivory can be separated from now-illegal elephant ivory by the grain structures. Elephant ivory has an even-lined structure while Mammoth has a "cross hatch" grain pattern (easily seen on the cross section cut of the ivory)- this is important when dealing with legalities! This beautiful grip set is probably from the mid-section of a tusk as it has both the rich creamy color of aged ivory mixed with darker brown. With elephant ivory no longer in the market place, Mammoth ivory is at a premium. It is very hard to find now and prices have really escalated. This grip set has been "stabilized" chemically so that it should not easily crack, chip or shrink. I've had a pair of these on a 1911 .45ACP for a number of years and they truly look rich and distinctive! $695.

 

                      

MARLIN  (click text for photos).

1) SELDOM SEEN MODEL ’93 SPORTING CARBINE IN .32 SPECIAL CALIBER, #8XXX WITH SHORT-LIVED MARLIN FIREARMS CORPORATION BARREL MARKING FOUND ON GUNS ONLY FROM 1922-1924. The Sporting Carbine M-93 was introduced in 1923, so with this barrel address stamping only used for the first full year of production, makes this quite a rare variation and can be dated to that specific time. The Sporting Carbine was last produced by Marlin in 1935 with final shipment made in 1936- no doubt another casualty of the Great Depression. This model came standard with a 20” barrel, 2/3 magazine, straight stock and hard rubber shotgun butt plate. The rear sight was a buckhorn with carbine style front sight. It was produced in .30-30 and .32 Special calibers only, with the .30-30 more common. This example shows fine deep barrel blue, mag tube shows fine blue also with some wear to the sides only. The receiver case colors have faded to a nice mottled gray with some very light color remaining in the most protected areas. The receiver also shows fine blue on the loading gate and has excellent screw heads. Fine butt stock and forend showing only normal handling. Tight action, excellent bore, solid Marlin embossed butt plate. A not often encountered Marlin made in limited numbers and doubly scarce with the "Marlin Firearms Corporation” barrel stamping that was only used until 1924!  $1495.

 

                A NOTE ABOUT "MODERN MARLINS": Marlin has closed its doors for good in North Haven, Connecticut and been bought out by the folks who own Remington. It looks like some  models have been put back into production with the barrels marked "Utica, New York."  I did see one of the new ones with the old North Haven barrel address so I assume they had left over barrels they were using up.  Quality in wood  to metal fit was fair at best and trigger pulls were off the scale heavy!  I don't know if any of the octagon barrel "cowboy models" will be produced again, although their online catalogue does show a model 1894 cowboy-type with octagon barrel in .45 Colt.

1) MODEL 1894S .44 SPECIAL/.44 MAGNUM 20" CARBINE, #11104XXX, COMPLETE WITH WEAVER 1.5-3X SCOPE, MADE 1989. This one with nicely grained walnut is in near new condition. Exc. blue overall and exc. optics in the scope which is mounted in Weaver base and rings. Complete with flip up lens caps. The barrel sights have not been removed. With the turn of two large knurled screws on the rings, the scope is easily removed or replaced in seconds. $895.

 

ANTIQUE & CLASSIC RIFLES, SHOTGUNS AND PISTOLS (click text for photos)   

1) HIGH STANDARD H-D MILITARY .22 LONG RIFLE AUTO PISTOL. These beautifully made “walnut and blued steel” handguns were made from 1946 into the early 1950s. This excellent example with serial number 240XXX is probably late 1940s production. It still retains most of the high polish blue with the correct dull matte blue on the grip straps, receiver top and slide top. The blue wear is mainly a light smudge at the muzzle and a spot or two on the frame- all minor. Checkered walnut grips are sharp and excellent. Mechanically excellent with very light trigger pull, perfect bore and adjustable sights, 6 ¾” bull barrel and one of the few .22 auto pistols with an exposed hammer! These have a wonderful “hefty” and solid feel not found on many .22 pistols. Clearly, a quality made from solid steel inside and out not to be seen again.  $695.

2) HIGH CONDITION SAVAGE MODEL 1907 .32 ACP AUTO PISTOL, #40994, MADE 1911. One of the finest of the  early Pre-War autos, the ten-shot Savage M-1907 was beautifully fit and finished. This 109 year old example shows most of the beautiful high polish factory blue with only some  very light edge wear on each side of the barrel and on some extreme edges. Even the grip straps and trigger guard show about all the bright blue. It has nice case colors on the trigger, is tight, has excellent grips and retains the correct magazine. These are getting hard to find in any condition. This is a beauty. (not great photos as the blue is such a high polish I had to take especially the top photo at an angle to cut the glare and reflection!) $795.

3) CLASSIC PARKER TROJAN 12 GAUGE SIDE BY SIDE DOUBLE SHOTGUN, #195XXX, MADE 1921. This shotgun with 30" barrels (marked "TROJAN STEEL"), double triggers and choked Modified and Full is listed by serial number in the book PARKER GUN IDENTIFICATION AND SERIALIZATION and confirms the model and barrel length etc. The barrels retain nice even blue with only minor thinning and age. The receiver is mostly a smooth silvery patina. All markings are sharp and clear and all parts have matching numbers. The bores are minty bright.  Very tight lock up. The excellent butt stock and forend show some wear to the checkering patterns, but there is no oil soaking to the wood or chips/cracks around the receiver etc. and retains the original plain black butt plate typical of this field grade model (most have had recoil pads added at a later date). Everyone who enjoys shotgunning in its many forms should have a classic American double gun to shoot! This would be a good one for that! $1295.

 

MODERN AND OUT OF PRODUCTION FIREARMS (click text for photos)

1) GOLDEN EAGLE FIREARMS MODEL 7000, HOUSTON, TEXAS .300 WEATHERBY MAGNUM CALIBER BOLT ACTION RIFLE. These were made in the late 1970s-early 1980s and basically copied the popular Weatherby style of rifle. They were made in most calibers with the .300 Weatherby one of the most desirable and most difficult to locate. The Golden Eagle  rifles were made in Japan by Nikko and were considered extremely high quality rifles. This one also has the desirable 26” barrel which will give maximum velocity in the .300 Wby. chambering. It is topped with a classic Redfield 3-9X scope with 4-plex reticle in tight fitting Redfield mounts. It sports all the Weatherby features like Monte Carlo comb stock, rosewood forend cap, recoil pad, sling swivel studs, Golden Eagle emblem in the rosewood pistol grip cap and skip-line checkering patterns on the pistol grip and forearm. It also has nicely figured walnut with a straight grain pattern for strength in this powerful magnum caliber. The scope also shows fine, clear optics and aside from a few minor handling marks in the wood, the overall condition is excellent with very minor blue wear. This rifle came out of here in Montana and probably accounted for a number of elk. (3 photos)  $1150.

2) WOOLY MAMMOTH IVORY GRIPS FOR M-1911 AUTO PISTOLS (see above in Colt section)

 

 REMINGTON (click text for photos)

1) LOW SERIAL NUMBER VERY EARLY PRODUCTION MODEL 51 .380ACP AUTO PISTOL, #4XXX. Remington made 54,500 of these fine hammerless pocket autos from 1918-1934 and they are serial numbered 1 - 60800. The early autos have nine grooves in the rear of the slide, as this one has, with the later pistols having fifteen grooves. This is a fine example showing only normal light carry wear and no abuse, rust or pitting. All markings are sharp and clear. There is the usual thinning of the blue around the muzzle area, the grip straps and on the edges. Exc. Remington  UMC embossed grips and correct magazine. Tight action, exc. bore, and both the manual safety and grip safety function properly. Considered one of the finest of the Pre-War pocket autos and especially slim in width, the Model 51 is a true classic. $695.

 

RUGER (click text for photos)

1) HARD TO FIND SPECIAL "BUCKEYE" BLACKHAWK CONVERTIBLE .32 H&R MAGNUM AND .32-20 CALIBER, 6 1/2" BARREL, ADJUSTABLE SIGHT REVOLVER, #610-05XXX, MADE 1988. These were made as a special run for Buckeye Sports in Ohio who was the sole distributor for this unusual model. Interestingly, they were made with FULL STEEL frames and grip straps, unlike the standard Blackhawks which at the time all had alloy grip straps etc. Further the top strap ahead of the rear sight is stamped with a buckeye flower. Grips are walnut with the Ruger medallions. this one appears unfired with both cylinders and the original box with correct end label. These are hard to find now and shoot exceptionally well. They are also about as strong a revolver ever made for these two excellent calibers. Hard to find in any condition, much less unfired with the original box and paperwork! $1395.

 

SHILOH SHARPS, MUZZLOADERS AND OTHER REPRODUCTIONS.  Note: I am a Shiloh Sharps dealer and can order you any Shiloh you want. Check out my other website for Shilohs: www.shiloh-ballard.com (click text for photos).

 

1) RARE SHILOH OFFERING! THIS IS THE .45-70 CALIBER "HARTFORD MODEL" COMMEMORATIVE RIFLE OF WHICH ONLY 100 WERE MADE. It was introduced to commemorate the new owners of the Shiloh Rifle Manufacturing Company in Big Timber, Montana. These special rifles were serial numbered on a silver banner from B001 to B100 and also have a silver banner on the lock plate embossed "HARTFORD MODEL." Included with each rifle was a large oval silver belt buckle embossed with "Shiloh Sharps" and a Sharps rifle image along with the matching serial number to the rifle it came with. They were first offered in 1993 and sold out quickly. Apparently, there were problems with the silversmith supplying that aspect of this rifle which caused long delays in delivery, with the last of these special rifles being produced in 2000! This rifle is next to the last one with number B099. It is unfired and comes with the matching belt buckle in the original blue velvet box. The rifle also comes with the original check list hang tag, certificate naming the original purchaser and original serial numbered Shiloh cardboard box (no longer used by the company). Each rifle was fitted with highly-figured extra fancy walnut, a special very heavy full nickel-plated crescent butt plate (not offered on any other rifles and unique to this model only), 30" heavy octagon polished barrel, highly polished screws, pewter tip and Hartford collar, double set triggers and full buckhorn Lawrence ladder rear sight with blade front sight. This is a stunningly beautiful rifle complete with matching serial numbered buckle in pristine, new condition from the original owner who stored this rifle for twenty years! A rare opportunity for the Shiloh Sharps enthusiast!  (4 photos) $4850.

2) JONATHAN BROWNING MOUNTAIN RIFLE, .50 CALIBER PERCUSSION HALF STOCK "HAWKEN STYLE" MUZZLE LOADER. These very high quality American made rifles were manufactured in the late 1970s-early 1980s. They featured either brass or iron furniture- this one has brass, single set trigger, walnut stock with cheek piece, buckhorn rear sight adjustable for elevation with both rear sight and blade front sight drift adjustable for windage. The 30" octagon barrel has a heavy, deep crown for ease of loading either a patched round ball or a bullet. the bolster containing the nipple has the distinctive "full curl" sheep horn design. This example has seen little if any real use and comes with the original matching numbered box. The bore is bright and excellent and there seems to be some slight freckling to the outer sharp edges on the opposing octagon sides (left and right) that I think is simply the way it left the barrel as the barrels on these were browned as opposed to polished. There is good even thin brown on this barrel with excellent markings. Exc. walnut with barely any handling marks. I bought one of these from a distributor's closeout sale in 1984 and have been shooting it ever since. That's a pretty good recommendation! One of the very few American made muzzleloaders and now about 40 years old. $1195.

 

SMITH AND WESSON (click text for photos)

1) BEAUTIFUL, HIGH CONDITION REGULATION POLICE .32 S&W LONG CALIBER, 4 1/4" BARREL REVOLVER, #449XXX, MADE 1917-1942. This is a distinct model separate from the usual .32 Hand-Ejector series because the Regulation Police revolvers have a cut or notch in the back strap where oversize grips fit necessitating the serial number placement to be on the front strap instead of on the butt which is covered by the extension-type grips. Serial numbers of these ran concurrently with the .32 H-E Third Model from about 260,000-536,000 (with the majority being the Hand-Ejector Model). Probably this one was made in the 1920s-1930s. It retains nearly all the beautiful S&W blue and case color on the hammer and trigger. At worst, there might be a touch of edge wear at the muzzle on each side, a hint of edge wear on the cylinder and some very slight scattered beginning of freckling on the frame mainly visible only under bright light- like in the photos. Action and bore are perfect, all matching numbers and the bottom of the crisply checkered excellent walnut grips retain the original 1917 patent stampings. About all the blue remains on the cylinder face indicating that it has been shot very little if at all. These early Pre-War Smiths were all hand tuned and fitted with a quality that simply doesn't exist in the modern world! A great example. $975.

2) LIMITED PRODUCTION .32-20 HAND EJECTOR MODEL OF 1905- 3RD CHANGE, #61XXX. These beautifully hand fit and finished 3rd Change revolvers were serial numbered in the 45201 - 65700 range and 20,499 were produced between 1909-1915. They were offered either in square butt or round butt and only with 4" or 6" barrels with the longer 6" barrels being the most common. This is a really fine 4" barrel example with square butt. The serial number matches on the frame, barrel, cylinder and inside the grips. It retains bright case colors on the hammer and trigger and the deep dish brass S&W medallion grips with sharp diamond checkering are excellent.  Most of the bright original blue remains with only some slight muzzle wear and edge wear. Even the front face of the cylinder retains most of the blue indicating that this revolver was shot very little if at all. The factory hand tuned action shows typical early mechanical excellence and is as tight today as when it left the factory. The bore is excellent. Interestingly, there is a great deal of discrepancy concerning the differences between the "changes" in this model. One book says that the 1905 3rd. Change revolvers "patent dates were now removed from the side of the barrel..." Not so on this one which DOES have the patent dates on the barrel. Perhaps it was an older barrel S&W found still in stock and used, but the serial number matches so it has to be right. I think, like Colt and a number of other manufacturers, parts were never wasted! A particularly attractive blued example with 4" barrel. (note: what looks like smudges on the frame is just light reflecting off oil) $895.

3) RARELY ENCOUNTERED ALUMINUM CYLINDER  PRE-37 CHIEF SPECIAL AIRWEIGHT REVOLVER WITH ORIGINAL AND VERY RARE SQUARE BUTT FRAME, #28XXX, MADE IN 1952-1954. Only 3,777 of these small “J” frame revolvers were made with aluminum cylinders and of this number only 900 were produced with square butt. Many, if not most, of these .38 Special “Mid-Range” chambered revolvers has their cylinders replaced with safer steel cylinders. Today, it is considered unsafe to fire one of these that still retains the original aluminum cylinder!  Example with matching aluminum cylinder would be considered a true S&W rarity. An original square butt This example has matching numbers on the barrel, frame and cylinder. It was finished in a kind of black finish that stuck to the aluminum almost like paint because normal blue only works on steel. This aluminum blacking tends to chip and peel easily. This revolver shows most of the black with only light scattered speckling mainly on the edges and bottom of the trigger guard from handling/holster carry. There are excellent case colors on the trigger and hammer. The bore is bright and mechanically it is excellent. The diamond checkered grips fit well and are correct, but not numbered to this revolver. It has the correct flat latch, pinned barrel and four-screw frame. An almost never seen variation. $895.

4) ONE OF THE FINEST MODERN CARRY GUNS IS THIS MODEL 637-2 STAINLESS STEEL, 1.875" BARREL,  AIRWEIGHT .38 SPECIAL +P CALIBER "J" FRAME REVOLVER. The Model 637-2 was introduced in 2002 and this one is brand new in the original box. Basically a super light and powerful (+P ammo rated and marked on the barrel) stainless/airweight Chief Special 5-shot revolver. A real classic and a joy to carry whether in a holster in the field or concealed in a pocket holster or inside the waist band holster. Rugged and ultra reliable, these are hard to beat. $695.

 

 

WINCHESTERS (click text for photo)

  1. SELDOM SEEN AND DIFFICULT TO ACQUIRE 1873 SADDLE RING CARBINE IN VERY LIMITED PRODUCTION .32WCF (.32-20) CALIBER! This rare saddle ring carbine is serial number 601XXX and according to the call-in sheet I got from the Cody Museum, was shipped March 5, 1907. Most of these late 1873s were exported and when found are in horrible condition. This one has seen use, but is very decent. Easily identifiable by the front magazine retaining band instead of the normal barrel band found on .38-40 and .44-40 carbines. The receiver shows even aged blue that is also evenly mixed with a most attractive plum (but certainly not brown or gray). Fine blue on the loading gate, mellow, uncleaned brass lifter with "32 CAL" markings, original dust cover, surprisingly excellent screws, barrel and magazine blue similar to the receiver with a tinge more brown to the plum and some light freckling on the barrel. Original carbine rear sight needs the slide and screw only, front sight boss is correct with a high blade pinned in. The end tip of the magazine tube on the right side looks like it was dinged and pushed some side metal back about 1/4 of an inch- minor. Fine barrel and tang markings. Bore is a bit dark with light pitting, but good rifling all the way through. Lever spring only is a little weak. Walnut stock and forearm show normal handling, but no abuse. There is a stress crack coming back from the upper tang for a couple of inches on each side that go nowhere. Tight wood to metal fit and correct butt plate without the trap for cleaning rods- only the .32 WCF carbines lack this. One can search for a '73 Saddle Ring Carbine in .32-20 for years and not see one! $3250.

  2. ALMOST NEVER SEEN 1876 FIRST MODEL OPEN-TOP RECEIVER ROUND BARREL RIFLE WITH SPECIAL ORDER SET TRIGGER, #7XX. This one came out of right here in Montana. Only the first batch of 1876 rifles were made with the open top, like on a Model 1866, without a dust cover.  Soon after, dust covers became standard on this model and many of the open tops were returned to the factory and fitted for a dust cover. Obviously, this example is unaltered from its original open-top configuration. A Cody Museum call-in sheet comes with this one verifying that this rifle left the factory with a round barrel and set trigger. It was received in the warehouse November 8, 1877 and shipped November 15, 1877. All early 1876 rifles were chambered for the .45-75 cartridge and this one has a near exc. bore that has strong rifling all the way through and is only a little dark. It has a buckhorn rear sight with Rocky Mountain blade front sight. Correct 28” barrel, set trigger works fine and has the adjustment screw intact. Overall the metal is uncleaned and retains an attractive gray-brown patina with some aged blue in the protected areas and on the loading gate. The mellow brass lifter has never been cleaned or polished and is dent free. Screw heads are in fine condition and the stock and forend have never been sanded or cleaned and show only normal light handling with fine wood to metal fit. Tight action with good springs and the hammer holds firmly at half cock. Lever catch is intact. This is really a fine, 3-digit serial number, unmolested example of one of the most difficult to obtain of all the Winchester lever action rifles. Most of the finest Winchester collections lack a 1876 Open-Top rifle.  (4 photos) $6450.

  3. MODEL 1876 OCTAGON RIFLE IN .40-60 CALIBER, #51XXX, MADE 1885. Interestingly, the .40-60 was Teddy Roosevelt’s favorite caliber in the Model 1876 for antelope hunting on his ranch in North Dakota during the 1880s. This is a good, solid example with 28” octagon barrel and full magazine. It also has the desirable “sporting ladder” rear sight which was made for this model and is marked “1876” on the top portion of the ladder. Front sight is a later blade/bead. The slide is intact in this sight. The barrel and magazine show fine aged blue with the barrel showing some additional ageing and some mixing with brown. The receiver has a mostly aged blue/brown appearance with one side plate screw a replacement. The butt stock shows only minor wear/handling and the bottom rear of the forend shows some light saddle wear- both butt stock and forend are solid and have never been sanded or refinished. Dust cover is intact and the mellow brass lifter is correctly marked “40-60.”  Tight action and strong springs, the bore shows some wear, but has good rifling all the way through with only some scattered light fairly surface roughness toward the middle. All markings are fine. Attractive example of a very hard to find model. $3200

  4. RARE CALIBER 1885 HIGHWALL SPORTER, .38-56 WCF, 30” #3 WEIGHT OCTAGON BARREL, #64XXX.  I called the Cody Museum on this one and got the info that this rifle with the above caliber etc., had its serial number applied on July 14, 1893. It was received in the warehouse on January 17, 1894 and shipped 4 days later. Only 610 1885 single shots were made in .38-56 caliber making it one of the more scarce calibers in the whole line. The .38-56 differs greatly from the more common straight wall .38-55 which is based on the popular .30WCF case without a shoulder/neck and made to accept .377” bullets. This cartridge only held about 45 grains of black powder. The larger .38-56 was based on the .45-70 case necked to take .377” bullets, but held a full 56 grains of black powder. Cases can be formed from .45-70 brass. This rifle shows good aged and thinning barrel blue. The barrel shows clear Winchester markings and has a buckhorn rear sight with elevator bar intact along with a small blade/bead front sight. The receiver is an uncleaned silvery/gray, but retains some very light wispy traces of case color. The bore is surprisingly sharp, bright and excellent! Stock and forend show only light handling with very tight wood to metal fit. The forend has the original ebony wedge inlay in the schnable tip. Overall a very attractive and scarce caliber Highwall with a great bore. Guaranteed call-in sheet included.  $2450.

  5. ONE OF THE MOST UNUSUAL AND RARE 1885 THICKSIDE HIGHWALL SINGLE SHOT RIFLES I’VE SEEN. This one is a very early thick side rifle #5XXX that according to the factory letter was shipped in 1886 as a caliber .45 2-3/8 (this has to be a mistake as there is no “.45 2-3/8” cartridge.  Probably meant .45 2-7/8) It further states it had a 30” #4 weight octagon barrel with plain trigger. Now, here’s the fascinating part: It was “Returned by Meacham, October 29, 1894, Received in warehouse on February 27, 1895” and listed as “Rifle, 30 Gov’t., Octagon barrel” (again, an obvious mistake as the .30 Gov’t. or .30-40 Krag caliber was never available in an octagon barrel, only chambered in nickel steel round barrels). “Plain trigger, 30 inches, #3 ship date and order number blank.”  Here are some interesting things to consider: The first smokeless caliber in the famed Model 1894 lever action rifle was the .30 WCF or .30-30 in late 1895 to early 1896- no doubt earlier than the year this rifle was changed to the new smokeless .30-40 Krag cartridge that was introduced in the U.S. Springfield Krag rifle in 1894, the same year this rifle was returned to Winchester. Whoever returned this rifle to be changed to the new military cartridge that was just out must have been a very savvy individual when it came to the latest guns and cartridges! Remember, this was before any kind of information getting out beyond newspapers and printed journals didn’t exist.. Word didn’t spread particularly fast in 1894! Winchester had this rifle from Oct. 29, 1894 until February 27, 1895 before shipping it back- that’s almost 4 months. Makes me wonder if they had to tool up for the new chambering. In the Model 1894, they didn’t have nickel steel barrels for the new smokeless .30 WCF round until late 1895 or early 1896 and this is why the first rifles made in 1894 were for the black powder .32-40 and .38-55 rounds. Winchester introduced the Model 1895 lever action box magazine rifle in 1895 with the standard caliber being .30-40 Krag.  But, the earliest Model 1895s carry a patent date of Nov. 5, 1895 which leads me to believe that rifles didn’t start coming out of the factory until after that date. This would be supported by the fact that only 287 rifles in all calibers (including the black powder .38-72 and .40-72) were made in 1895. Another interesting aspect of this Highwall rifle is that the caliber is simply stamped on the barrel top ahead of the receiver “30 N.S.” Since the only .30 caliber cartridges at this time (not including the .303 British) were the .30 WCF (possibly) and .30-40 Krag or Gov’t., I think the “N.S.” stood for Nickel Steel. So, in conclusion, it was shipped before the Model 1895 began production and certainly before the Model 1894 was chambered in .30 WCF (or .25-35 at the same time).  Could Winchester have chambered another Highwall single shot in .30-40 Krag before this one?  Yes, the first .30-40 Krag chambered in a Highwall was in April, 1894. I’m thinking it very probably may have been an ammo test rifle or a prototype smokeless rifle and not necessarily a standard sporter sold to the public as they had not even geared up to manufacture sporting ammo in this caliber yet. But I believe this first .30-40 was probably NOT a thick side action.  There were a little over 1,000 Highwalls made in .30-40 Krag and I believe all were on thin side actions. If you have read this far, here’s the description of this rifle: generally fine blue on the barrel with only a little dulling from age and a thin area down the left side of the barrel where some light rust had formed at one time and been wiped off with an oily rag- nothing unsightly. The bore is slightly dark, but excellent and free of any pitting with sharp rifling. The receiver is a mottled gray with some small traces of case color in the most protected areas, tight action, fine butt stock and forearm with ebony inlay in the schnable tip, tight wood to metal fit, fitted with a Marbles tang sight paired with a Rocky Mountain blade front sight and a slot filler in the rear dovetail. Probably the only thick side Highwall in .30-40 Krag! $3450.

  6. VERY ATTRACTIVE 1892 .44-40 OCTAGON RIFLE, #714XXX, MADE 1914. Great example of a very desirable and difficult to find caliber and configuration. This one shows fine deep lightly aged blue on the receiver with only some thinning on the upper tang and on the bottom front of the receiver by the serial number. There is one very old, aged and uncleaned finger tip spot of old rust/pitting on the lower left edge of the receiver that is dark in color and blends well- hardly worth mentioning. Exc. screws still show good blue. Fine+ deep magazine blue, barrel blue is also fine and mixing just a little from age with minor plum. Even the forend cap shows good blue.  Buckhorn rear sight with standard Winchester blade front sight. Excellent markings, fine+ wood showing only light handling and very tight wood to metal fit. Tight action with fine+ bore is fairly bright and shows good rifling all the way through with only some very small spots of scattered pitting. A really fine looking ’92 .44-40 with a lot of finish. $2495.

  7. HIGH CONDITION 1892 32-20 ROUND BARREL RIFLE, MADE 1903, a really beautiful example that shows excellent deep barrel and mag blue with only the most minor of wear on the bottom of the mag tube and very slight ageing of the blue, receiver shows excellent deep blue with minor edge wear and a little plum mixing on the bottom and upper tang, but shows most of the bright blue with the lightest of wear only, exc. stock and forend with very minor handling marks only, tight wood to metal fit, still retains some good dark case color on the upper portions of the lever and on hammer, bore appears a little worn and may have some leading in it that should scrub out to fine or better, original buckhorn rear sight with standard Winchester blade front sight, exc. markings, unfooled with overall and super attractive. (4 photos) $2250.

  8. 1892 SADDLE RING CARBINE, .25-20 CALIBER, #859XXX, MADE THE YEAR THE U.S. ENTERED WORLD WAR I IN 1917. A good example with barrel and magazine showing even aged blue mixing plum. The receiver blue has mainly aged dark with gray mixing. Two leaf rear sight with typical carbine front sight. Exc. barrel markings. Saddle ring and staple intact. Fine deep reddish/brown color stock and forend showing normal handling, good wood to metal fit and some light saddle or saddle scabbard rubbing on the right side of the forend. Tight action, bore a bit dark with some frost, but good rifling- a brushing out and perhaps a scrubbing with J-B Bore Paste would probably improve the bore. $1150.

  9. PARTICULARLY FINE 1894 15 INCH TRAPPER SADDLE RING CARBINE, .30 WCF,  WITH ATF CLEARANCE PAPERS, #985XXX, MADE 1925. I found this one in Arizona and just now got it back from the folks at ATF who thoroughly examined it, photographed it and issued clearance papers listing this carbine by serial number (making it perfectly legal to own). This '94 is one of the better Trappers I've seen in a while. The barrel and magazine retain nearly all the blue with only some light age on the barrel and some small amount of thinning/dulling on portions of the mag tube. The receiver is typically flaked to an uncleaned gray with some aged blue remaining in protected areas, around the saddle ring and fine blue on the loading gate. The receiver screws are all excellent. It also has the original carbine ladder rear sight with slide intact along with the standard carbine front sight. Importantly, it has the barrel address AHEAD OF THE BARREL BAND which is correct for short barrel trapper carbines. The walnut forend and butt stock are generally fine with tight wood to metal fit with no sanding or refinishing. The butt stock shows only light, normal handling /wear which is very unusual for a trapper as most saw hard use and often abuse. The correct short forend measuring just under 8" is fine and shows only light wear. The action is tight and the bore is excellent. Far better condition than usually encountered on one of these rare short-barreled carbines! (the white chalk rubbed into the markings was done by ATF for photographic purposes- I left it to show the forward barrel address ahead of the barrel band)  ATF clearance papers included. $5200.

  10. 1895 RIFLE IN DESIRABLE .30-06 CALIBER, #416XXX, MADE 1923. This rifle shows fine aged barrel blue that is dulling, but still blue. The rear sight dovetail is empty and appears never to have had a sight because the receiver is fitted with a Lyman 21 "Climbin' Lyman" aperture sight with the fold out fine peep intact. I believe this was factory installed when the rifle was new as elevating the sight reveals bright blue underneath where it was protected by the sight. The receiver blue has naturally aged to mainly brown with good blue on the magazine sides and on the bolt. The action is tight and the bore is excellent. The rifle has been fitted with a fixed sling swivel in the butt and one utilizing the forend screw. The stock and forend are excellent with tight wood to metal fit. All markings are sharp and clear. A powerful, modern 97 year old lever action Winchester from the Roaring Twenties! $1695.

  11. RARELY SEEN SEMI- DELUXE PISTOL GRIPPED, CHECKERED MODEL 1903 .22 AUTO RIFLE, MADE 1915. A fairly plain but solid walnut stock and forend, this was someone's well used and taken care of "pride and joy" rifle as the checkering is all there, but fairly worn. The blue on the receiver is pretty well aged to an uncleaned gray with good blue in the most protected of areas. It has the correct  pistol grip cap. Interestingly, this one was returned to the factory for a new barrel at some point as the barrel has both the oval P "Mail Order" proof as well as the Winchester proof- this means, the rifle was sent back to Winchester who then took a "Mail Order" replacement barrel out of stock and fitted it to the returned rifle- thus, the Mail Order plus Winchester Proof marks. The barrel has all the correct Winchester and Model 1903 markings and shows fine deep blue and retains some thinning blue on the forend cap. Exc. mech., exc. bright bore, buckhorn with blade/bead front sights. I believe CCI still sells .22 Auto ammo (different from .22 LR), pistol gripped/checkered Model 1903s are quite rare. Winchester's first auto loading rifle! $795.

  12. SCARCE MODEL 36 SINGLE SHOT BOLT ACTION 9MM RIMFIRE SHOTGUN, MADE 1921-1929. These little guns are best described by George Madis in The Winchester Handbook as follows: In a departure from the trend to smokeless powder, Winchester produced the Model 36 single shot shotgun, intended for use only with black powder. Two rimfire shot cartridges were made by Winchester for the Model 36; the 9MM SHORT, or single charge, and the 9MM LONG, or double charge cartridge. Both of these shells were loaded with number nine shot. A ball cartridge was also offered. This little shotgun was considered a "garden gun" and an all around gun for boys or men. (Sounds a little sexist by today's standards...does that mean girls and women were forbidden from using the Model 36?) A total of 25781 of these were made when it was discontinued in 1929- no doubt the stock market crash and following Great Depression killed this odd little shotgun. When found today, they are usually in horrible condition as they were "garden guns" used for that purpose and usually didn't see the care and cleaning of the owner's other sporting guns. This one is one of the better examples I've seen as it has the original gum wood stock which is not cracked or chipped and retains good original wood finish. The barrel blue has aged and thinned to brown with excellent markings intact. the bore is basically bright with a few dark spots that will probably brush out. Has the correct bead front sight and no provision for a rear sight. Exc. mechanically and retains the original hard rubber butt plate. A true unique Winchester oddity! $695.

  13. RARE 20" CARBINE MODEL 64 LEVER RIFLE IN .30WCF, #1097XXX, MADE IN THE SECOND YEAR OF PRE-WAR PRODUCTION IN 1935. The standard  barrel length of the Model 64 was 24" (except 26" for .219 Zipper caliber). Very few carbines with 20" barrels were made. According to the Winchester Handbook by Madis, the sales records show that from 1939-1941 only 334 of these standard M-64s with 20" barrels were sold. With the Great Depression in full swing by the year of introduction of the M-64 in 1933, sales for all calibers and barrel length were limited. After World War II, the Model 64 was continued, but the 20" carbine was not offered. This example came out of here in Montana and no doubt as some great hunting history in it! It retains fine deep barrel and magazine blue. The receiver blue has thinned to silver on the right side with good blue toward the front portion and on the loading gate, the left side shows good blue on the top portion and around the period correct fully adjustable Redfield receiver sight0- by the way the blue is good were protected by this sight leads me to believe it is original to the rifle. The bolt retains fine blue and the front sight on the barrel still has the hood attached. The rear sight dovetail has a blank filler. The butt stock and forearm are solid and show good original stock finish, only minor handling marks and just some slight wear to the bottom edge of the pistol grip on each side- probably from saddle scabbard use. Excellent screws and excellent bright bore. A rare Winchester model right out of the Great Depression! $2250.

  14. FIRST YEAR PRODUCTION MODEL 71 .348 WCF WITH BOLT PEEP SIGHT, SERIAL NUMBER 2XXX, MADE 1936! This is the desirable “long tang” early variant with the also desirable optional “bolt peep” aperture sight. Really nice condition overall showing light use only and no abuse. The receiver with untouched screw heads shows about all the bright factory blue with only a touch of edge wear,  even on the upper tang and on the receiver bottom. The lever also shows almost all the blue. Fine deep magazine and barrel blue with a hint of freckling near the muzzle. The forend cap has some flaking, but retains some good blue and only the loading gate assembly shows some flaking. Excellent forend and butt stock with very tight wood to metal fit and only some light edge wear to the bottom edge of the pistol grip. Correct checkered steel butt  plate, tight action and minty-bright bore. This one came out of right here in Montana. Great 84 year old Model 71! $2350.

     

 

    BILL GOODMAN,  P. O. BOX 2002,  BOZEMAN,  MONTANA  59771           TEL.  (406) 587-3131          FAX  (406) 219-3415           montanaraven@hotmail.com

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THESE  WERE SUCH  GOOD NOTES FROM THE FIELD I'M KEEPING THEM HERE.

 

 CRACKED STOCKS! Seems like an odd thing to write about, but this is something I've not seen in print before. I've observed a lot of rifles with cracks coming straight back toward the butt plate from the upper and lower tangs. Sometimes the cracks are severe enough to warrant repairs (like cross bolts etc. through the wrist or extensive gluing) and other times the stock remains pretty solid as is.  So what caused this condition in the first place?  I've hunted with all kinds of rifles in all kinds of weather and terrain and never had a gun get damaged like all these I've seen.  And I've taken some pretty bad falls too. Once, on ice I couldn't see beneath a couple inches of fresh snow, my feet went out from under me and my rifle landed a number of yards away!  Still, no cracks like these. So I've been puzzled by this for some time.  Then it hit me, since these guns all seemed like Western big game rifles- large lever actions like 1876 and 1886 Winchesters or Marlin 1881 and 1895s as well as all over while the rifles were in saddle scabbards- fairly common in icy winter conditions, especially in the mountains. Also, sometimes horses will walk so close to trees that they rub against them.  If a rifle is in a butt-forward position scabbard, the rifle can go on one side of the tree and the horse the other causing a stress cracked stock.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.  The wrists are fairly strong on most rifles and it takes a lot to crack one.  If anyone else has a different theory about this condition, I'd like to hear it!

 "GUNS OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION YEARS" When the Great Depression began with the Stock Market Crash of 1929 America was taken by surprise.  Prior to this pivotal event, in the gun industry production was high and sales were brisk.  Almost overnight sales fell off hugely.  The Winchester Handbook by George Madis shows production numbers by years of some of the major models.  This is pretty illuminating.  Here are some examples: Model 1890 .22RF had 12,367 produced in 1928 and 696 made in 1932; Model 1892 saw 64,833 produced in 1910 and 491 in 1930; Model 53 had 2,861 produced in 1925 and 30 made in 1937; Model 1894 had 29,967 made in 1927 and only1,192 made in 1934; Model 55 had 3,064 made in 1927 and 42 made in 1936. Colt, Marlin, Savage, Remington and Smith & Wesson etc. all f elt the same pressure.  With production down to a fraction of what it was, the big manufacturers had no choice but to fire employees.  Those lucky enough to be retained were the most highly skilled and experienced craftsmen.  They also had time to put extra fine fitting and finishing into each firearm.  Generally, the quality of these guns is truly exceptionally.  With production numbers of these late pre-war arms relatively small and quality without peer, their value should be assured.  Some of the scarce large frame Colt and S&W handguns- especially the target sighted versions- are almost breathtaking in their fit an  d finish.  This has been an under-appreciated niche in arms collecting/investing. It is my belief Great Depression era  arms are often "sleepers" on the antique market today and are bound to increase in value at a rapid pace making them excellent long term investments.

I have found a new shooting activity that I'm sure a number of folks who check out my website will either want to try themselves or will at least find interesting reading.  I've discovered the fun of BLACK POWDER SHOTSHELLS. And no, I'm not new to black powder.  I've been shooting muzzle loaders since I was a kid (I was too young to buy ammo, but a can of black powder and a single shot muzzle loading pistol kept me shooting!) I've shot black powder cartridge rifles and some handguns since the 1970s.  I've also tried a few muzzle loading shotguns, but a while back I noticed Midway was offering reloadable brass shotshells made by Magtech in Brazil.  They cost about a buck a piece and come in a box of 25.  So I thought this looked interesting and bought a box.  They prime with a large pistol primer (I use CCI  Large Pistol Mag. Primers) and require no special tools to load.  I did buy a "cowboy 12 ga. shell holder" by RCBS which makes priming easier, but one can prime using a dowel, hammer and a flat surface to seat the primer. Anyway, I loaded with various loads of black powder as well as Alliant Black MZ black powder substitute. 27.3 grains equals one dram, so a typical heavy field load of 3 1/2 drams equals about 95 grains (by volume) of black powder or substitute.  I load that through a drop tube to better settle the powder, using a wood dowel I seat an over powder card wad, then a cushion wad, pour in 1 1/8 oz. of shot from an antique shot dipper I picked up somewhere along the line, top with another over powder wad and then put about three small drops of  CLEAR NON-FOAMING  Gorilla glue on this top wad at the edge. Last, using a Q-tip sweep it around the wad edge. It dries making a nice seal with the inside of the brass case brass case and holds everything together (note: this is the best glue I've tried, but do NOT use the brown foaming Gorilla glue as it pushes the wad up when dry and is awful to correct!). Firing removes any glue residue from the case.  I picked up a particularly nice Remington 1889 double barrel with exposed hammers (damascus with exc. bores) and tried out my loads on some thrown clays.  I'm not a good shot with a scattergun, but when I felt I was on, the clay targets broke as nicely as if I'd been using a modern smokeless shotgun. I used this double on a pheasant hunt last fall and did just fine with it.  Truthfully, it made the hunt so much more fun I don't know if I'd go again with one of my modern guns! Recently I tried the same shells in a Winchester 1887 Lever Action 12 ga. that was made in 1888. It fed beautifully and was a blast to shoot (no pun intended). The brass cases de-prime with a simple Lee type punch and clean up with hot soapy water. No resizing is required for the next loading.  Pretty simple.  The 12 ga. cases are 2 1/2" long, which is exactly what a modern 2 3/4" case measures LOADED AND UNFIRED. Remember, many of the older guns, like the Winchester 1887, have 2 5/8" chambers. You don't want to shoot a 2 3/4" shell in them as they won't be able to open up all the way causing pressures to jump etc. I don't think Magtech offers brass cases in 10 ga. but they do in the smaller gauges.  There are a lot of older shotguns out there that can often be purchased inexpensively and make wonderful shooters.  Be sure to have any gun checked out by a gunsmith if you have doubts about it. With these brass cases and ease of loading, it's worth trying.  Buffalo Arms in Idaho sells the correct size wads for these brass cases- they actually take 11 ga. wads. If you give this a try, I think you'll be glad you did-   Bill Goodman

William T. Goodman, P.O. Box 2002, Bozeman, MT 59771    (406) 587-3131    fax (406) 219-3415     montanaraven@hotmail.com